Wednesday, June 14, 2006

BYU = Out of Control

Well, they've done it again. One of the articles I linked to in a post not too long ago (you can find that here) is the source of a serious debate in the community.

It seems as though BYU has fired the professor that wrote an op-ed piece that said he believed that opposing gay marriage and seeking a constitutional amendment against it is immoral. (Here's the link to the article he said that in.)

This is preposterous. Has anyone heard of academic freedom? or what about the freedom of speech? Why should someone be fired for voicing an opinion? Doesn't that go against the values of our nation? Why should someone be at risk of losing his job for making a moral statement in the face of outrageous immorality? This is perhaps one of the most frustrating stories I've read all year.

All this proves is that BYU is probably one of the worst schools you can go to.

Also: I was hoping for some type of lively debate or conversation on my last post about Same Sex Marriage, in fact I even asked for it. Was everyone asleep at the switch or just completely apathetic about the Anti-Marriage debate?


John said...

BYU spokeswoman Carri Jenkins said the decision to let Nielsen go came from the philosophy department.

"The department made the decision because of a recent opinion piece that publicly contradicted and opposed a statement by the First Presidency," Jenkins said. "Such contradiction is in violation of university policy."

When I read this, I couldn't stop laughing. Sounds like a real first rate education.

Bryan said...

BYU is to education what Keystone Kops are to the SWAT team

DF Maverick said...

It is depressing, you cant even have an intelligent debate on the subject between two beings who are not religous fanatic, insecure, brainwashed Mormons.

Pirate Club said...

Although this is understandably vexxing, you can't really blame them. As a private school funded by a church that opposes the issue of gay marriage, why would they want a professor there teaching otherwise. I'm not saying I agree, it is just that I am not surprised.
Also, BYU has the #1 computer animation program at any university in the nation, and is the #1 top draft for companies like ILM, Dreamworks and Sony. If I were to go anywhere, I would go to BYU. Even if that meant religion classes.

Steven Greenstreet said...

Pirate Club,

I think the professor was just trying to say the church might be wrong on its views of gay marriage. He wasn't saying, "The church is false" or " Fuck BYU". And it's probably the 3,667,458,798,405,394th time that someone within church has spoken out about rules and/or doctrine that needed to be changed. (i.e. Polygamy, Blacks in the Church, Death Oaths in the Temple, etc).

In the past, those who brought up the issue were usually chided and punished, but the church eventually progressed anyway. So, in a way, the church needs people like Jeffrey Nielsen.

As for BYU offering good things in exchange for selling out all your beliefs on free speech, etc., that's a personal decision. Agreed, BYU has a great program for the animated arts. I just hope you're not a gay animation student at BYU. Cuz then you're fucked.

Bryan said...

I'm not saying I'm surprised, I'm saying it's shitty. I'm saying it's wrong. Would you fire someone for writing a well-thought out and well-put editorial with which you disagreed? No, because you aren't a hurt five year old who puts their fingers in their ears and shout "la-la-la-la-la-la" everytime you hear a dissenting opinion.

And the fact that the guy is right probably hurts their case quite a bit as well.

The Silent Observer said...

At BYU, there is some sacrifice of academic freedom in order to foster an environment where students can learn and not have their Constitutionally-protected beliefs assaulted by crackpot academics (see U of U). Hearing differing viewpoints over social issues is only a very small part of one's education.

This does not go against the values of our nation, any more than the comment moderation on this blog goes against the values of the nation.

I would have liked to debate same sex marriage with you, but I was already doing it on several other blogs, and didn't have time for one more. Maybe next time.

Bryan said...

Personally, I think the comment moderation on this blog is silly. I think it was needed for a little while, but that time has passed.

Steven Greenstreet said...

Moderation is now off, Bryan. I just made your life a little less silly.

Bryan said...

The best way for you to make my life a little less silly, Steve, would be to stop those damn koalas from crapping rainbows....

What the fuck is with that?

Bryan said...


and we still need the verification stuff.... otherwise we'll be slammed with spam.

YourYorel said...

It's a private university. Period. Just as we all decide what we will and will not allow in our homes, those who choose to go to BYU choose what will and will not be allowed on the campus. Get over it. There are plenty of alternatives. The fact is that BYU grads are highly sought after. And unless you have an outstanding GPA etc., you are not getting in. Oh. I got a kick out of your rant.

Bryan said...

The thing is, this was an affect of behaviour of the professor OUTSIDE the classroom and outside his workplace.

That is really dodgy to me.

better than you said...

I bet you fuckers probably wouldn't give as big a shit if the reverse happened - someone being wrongfully terminated for writing an article criticizing the gay agenda.

J. Matt Barber wrote a piece called "The Gay Agenda vs. Family Values," which can be found at, and was later terminated by Allstate Insurance Company in response to the article. The piece was written outside of work, and Barber in no way made reference to his employment with Allstate (the website's profile of the author mentioned his employer).

But like I said, you idiots probably don't give a shit about that... FUCK BYU!? Right, fuck you morons.

Steven Greenstreet said...

better than you,

You are so right. You got us.

So, are you J. Matt Barber? If you are, I am so sorry that you got fired from Allstate for being a fucktard.

Suck my balls,


Anonymous said...

Just like Nielsen is a fucktard, idiot.

Gosh, at least have a consistent point of view when you all decide to be such assholes.

Anonymous (Yes, I fear having all of your UVSC groupies fire bomb my house or something.)

John said...

better than you,

If I were you I would stick to not gambling. Being presumptuous about people will get you nowhere. btw, "the gay agenda" sounds as silly as "the Jew agenda" or "the Mormon agenda".


Better than you said...


You're joking, right? In his response, Steve said "I'm so sorry that [Barber] got fired from Allstate for being a fucktard." I didn't see any comments that suggested Nielsen was a "fucktard" for being fired from BYU. In my view, they were both fired for expressing views contrary to those held by their employers.

I'm not being presumptuous, these idiots are just not consistent with their viewpoints.

Better than you

Better than you said...

P.S., I didn't write the damn article, nor do I agree with everything written by Barber (just like I didn't agree with everything written by Nielsen) - I was just pointing out a similar action taken by an employer.

So, let's hear everyone talk about the facists at Allstate.

John said...

yup. pretty funny huh?

DF Maverick said...

Your right pro-freedom based companies should be terminated.

Fucking assbag.